Second-Greatest Living Baseballer?
I'm sitting here in my kitchen--sorry, mom's basement is getting refinished--drinking cans of Moosehead and listening to the local yokels of sports talk radio argue about the title topic. For those outside of Denver, said yokels are Irv Brown (antique, ex-Final Four ref, universally beloved in college basketball, tolerable), Joe Williams (hates Nebraska, hates John Elway, hates the modern world) and Jim Armstrong (Denver Post columnist, overuser of cliches, multi-media star against all odds), and they're espousing an, er, interesting idea.
Specifically, the notion, courtesy of cranky old Williams, that Pete Rose is, after Willie "The Say Hey Kid" Mays, our greatest living ballplayer.
Now, at first that sounded almost rational to me. I do love me some Pete Rose, just like Banky, and think he should be in the Hall of Fame. But what about Hank Aaron? Stan Musial? Frank Robinson? Dave Kingman?
I kick it out to HoG nation (basically we three writers and a few of our buddies and/or relatives) to discuss.
22 comments:
Whew. That's a toughy. Without attempting to undermine the phenomenal careers and accomplishments of Musial, Aaron, Mays, Williams, et al, I'd have to say that no player impacted my approach/view of the game like Rose. But that's unfair because his play was obviously much more visible. He would get my vote, but the polls of a thoughtless-jerk homer don't add up to much.
OK--here's what I found myself saying: no matter how good Pete Rose was at playing the game of baseball, and few have ever been better, you have to give the nod to some other guys, especially Musial and Aaron.
Stan the Man hit for a .331 average lifetime, with a slugging percentage of .559. .559! He also hit 475 home runs in an era where the baseball was roughly the same as Rose found it. Add in nearly 2,000 RBIs, the everlasting love of an entire region and my own dad's fandom, which doesn't show up in the stats.
Aaron, aside from his obvious home run stats, hit for a base 3,771 times. That's only about 500 south of Rose..and Rose is only about 600 homers south of Aaron.
I hear ya'. Loud and clear. I knew stats would quickly come into this, and I won't argue that Musial or Aaron weren't better in those categories, and probably some others. My vote goes for the intangibles, though, a.k.a., the hustle. And again, I didn't watch those guys play ball.
Stan Musial never hustled. In fact, he would have had 600 homers but was so surly he often refused to run even if he hit a ball over the fence.
Also, Willie Mays is still alive? Who knew?
And please, no more grainy photos of hirsute cavemen in Speedos. Rough.
Say hey!
My favorite Musial stat: 1815 hits at home, 1815 hits away. Even if he was too indolent to leg out his homers, that's pretty cool.
And though his era was during the rule of Methuselah from Masonville... why hasn't Babe Ruth's name been mentioned yet?
Greatest living...
Mine goes Mays, Barry, Aaron, Musial, ARod. Rose somewhere in the top 10 I suppose.
BF -- Because he was an asshole Yankee.
ONS -- Put down the crack pipe, son.
You're right, Pete Rose was a better baseball player than Barry Bonds. Needn't look at all those stupid statistics, Pete's uniform was always dirty and he fucked Ray Fossey up.
I wasn't platooning for anything Rose-related there. Only wanted you to sober up and remove Bonds and Rodriguez. Since you mentioned it though, wise-ass, what stats did your boy Barry put up besides homers and the RsBI associated with them?
Well, no matter what size BB's head ended up at the tail of his career, he was to my mind the most talented ballplayer I've ever watched.
When he was young, in those Pirates/early Giants days, he was a threat to steal like 40-50 bases a year, hit 25 homers, score 100 and bat in 100 and hit about .320. Every year. And his first season in SF, he carried that team.
Whatever his human failings, and lo, they are legion, the guy was an unbelievable talent.
Rodriguez will end up as the all-time home run king. You have to have his name in there somewhere. Even if he's a dickbag.
And you continue to ignore Ruth? Musial ahead of Ruth? WTF? Not sayin' he's the all time greatest, however he's in the conversation for chrissakes.
Dude...greatest LIVING ballplayer. Alive. Breathing. Ken Caminiti, Kirby Puckett and Thurman Munson don't count either.
oops. dyslexic I guess. Hank Aaron. Count it!
This is all bullshit!
Sincerely,
Bobby Doerr
Aaron behind Mays of course, doggy style.
is Al Kaline still alive?
No mention of Mantle yet, either. Gehrig?
as 7 said...
Living, breathing, non-Thumon Munsons
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