Friday, September 5, 2008

Friday Morning Fracas: The HoG and Categorized 'Skin Tossing 101

Football season is underway. The Giants held off the Redskins last night, in what I'm sure was a dazzling battle, and in what I'm certain is not a precursor to Eli and the G-men winning another title. No, honor will likely go to another squad this year, and I for one, do not think it will be the Dallas Cowboys or the San Diego Chargers. The Patriots? Maybe. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Eli's older brother made another run at the Lombardi, and Tony Dungy rode off into the Colt-print sunset of glory. Is that my prediction for who wins it all? No. I'll wait until...mmm...week 14ish to make that pick. Yup. That's how I roll. Either way, Sunday, Sunday, Sunday is when things get exciting, and the trusty ol' House of Georges has some Chiefs/Broncos posts and picks we'll be throwing the way of our readers between now and noon (Central) on Sunday. Until then, let's open an always-successful thread in the comments about gunslingers past, somewhat present, but mostly past.

My interest in doing so is because I found myself confused this morning. This story says the following: "OPEN Sports (, a new online sports entertainment destination and brainchild of Mike Levy, founder and former CEO of CBS, has joined forces with the NFL’s all-time winningest quarterback, John Elway, on a multi-year deal. Elway will serve as the spokesman of the recently launched OPEN Sports Fantasy Football suite of products and challenge games."

If you look here, you'll see that Horse-Faced Colts Draft doesn't lead in all-time touchdown passes; in fact, there are two active players already above him. He doesn't make the list here, here, he does however make the top three here, and he does appear here a few times (passes attempted, passes completed, and yards gained), and here twice (the number two slot for most 3000-yard seasons, and the number one slot for most times sacked in a career).

What's more is that he appears at the mumber three slot in a post titled "Top Five NFL Quarterbacks of All Time." This guy, in a similarly titled post, puts him at the two slot, in between Marino and Montana, but adds this caveat:

"However, for those who like to rate greatness on championships won, let’s not forget that Terrell Davis, not Elway, was the driving force in leading the Broncos to their consecutive titles in ’97 and ’98. Had Marino had a back like Davis – and a little defensive help – who know how many rings the Dolphins would have won."

Another post, similar title, gives Elway the two spot again, this time in between Manning and Montana. His reasoning looks like this:

"The greatest quarterback of all time is unquestionably Montana. I mean, there is pretty much no question about it. He has 3 Superbowl MVPs, 4 regular season MVPs and a player of the year award. Oh yeah, and he won four Superbowls. Stats don't mean anything in Joey's case. Because when you needed a play to be made, Montana made it. You need a drive. Montana's got it. You need to milk the clock. Montana's got it. And if you need someone to throw the go-ahead touchdown pass in the biggest game of season, Joe Montana is your man."

Finally, three-spot here, and then there's the author of this post, who thinks only Marino and Favre should be in the conversation for best ever, and lastly, his Pro-Football Reference page, where we find one more career category in which he lands in first place: two-point conversions.

Obviously, we all know that John Elway was a phenomenal quarterback, and ultimately, it could be deemed impossible to determine who was the greatest, second-best, etc. of all time at any position. And essentially, wherever any pass-tosser falls, they're in good company. And naturally, I know for certain that there are plenty of Denver faithfuls that would claim, and likely link to pages where there are reasons listed as to why he's the best. But this claim, an obvious plug for a fantasy-football product, states that he is the NFL's all-time winningest, and we know that Old No. 4 eclipsed that record last year, and Manning, barring significant injury, will likely pass them both before his career is done.

So without any further ado, bring it.


Cecil said...

Don't everyone talk at once...

Look--I've said my piece on Elway for the last two decades plus. I've no need to defend my position. He was the greatest QB ever to play the game of tackle football and if you don't agree with that statement you hate freedom.

I must, however, take issue with the retarded notion that somehow poor Dan Marino muddled along without the kind of offensive players that #7 had around him.

Bullshit, I contend. Marino had better receivers, a better offensive line and a better offensive scheme for the first decade of both of their careers, not to mention a defense that was frequently superior.

Elway had a grand total of *one* Pro Bowl offensive lineman until the advent of Zimmerman and Nalen, by which point he'd been in the league 12 years. One. Helps to explain why he was sacked so much.

bankmeister said...

I hate freedom, but I love orange-tinted glasses.

Cecil said...

Chicks dig 'em.

Or so I hear, anyway.